Curse

Winterclaw · Dec 15, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Eles have never really been about doing big damage, save for some spike builds in PvP. If you want big damage, go warrior or something like that. If you want utility, go el.

Skyy High · Dec 15, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

You've already highlighted a problem with the suggestion with the comparison to Cry of Pain: even if they buffed Energy Blast in the manner that you suggest, it would still be a crap way of dealing damage. One skill certainly would not revitalize the elementalists' role as HM main damage dealer.

Stupid Shizno · Dec 15, 2008, 09:24 PM // 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Eles have never really been about doing big damage, save for some spike builds in PvP. If you want big damage, go warrior or something like that. If you want utility, go el.

i think your thinking of a Me/E Air spike. Ele spikes were based off utility, not damage. OB spike, shockway, are both eleball utility teams with 1 spike. but the point of the build was invincibility over damage.

but for the post, eles are fine the way they are. eles are gods for team survivability . ward of harm, melee, stability > pve they can also pick up defensive roles with Aegis giving your team a full aegis chain (counting 2 monk aegis). they can go passive with blindbot spam. eles when used correctly can reduce the amount of damage threat making whatever it is your doing alot easier.

spamming meatorshower is for FoW kids. Not HM.

tauntedflail · Dec 15, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Eles have never really been about doing big damage, save for some spike builds in PvP. If you want big damage, go warrior or something like that. If you want utility, go el.

Yes eles have been about doing big damage.
People get confused about what things were meant for and what they have been used for.
Elementalists were always designed casters that did big AoE damage to things. This is why they have skills like meteor shower.
Warriors were designed to be big physical damage dealers on single targets.
That was the primary philosophy behind each class, of course there are exceptions within each proffesion that allow one to do the other, but that does not change the overall idea of what the class was meant for.

It just so happened that because of numerous mechanics within the game (such as scatter) people eventually found the elementalists primary philosophy redundant when compared with the warrior (and later the dervish and assassin) and so it fell into the role of support. (Which, for the record, was originaly the rangers 'job'.) Its probably best to take note the ANet dont really have any intentions to 'force' each proffession back into their original philosophies anyway.

In light of that, I dont think its too unreasonable to suggest that elementalists could get a few buffs to their AoE skills, but, like the others - I dont think the mention suggestion would make that much of a difference anyway.

Stupid Shizno · Dec 15, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

you should rethink your own words

eles have never been about doing aoe damage
eles have always been about being a support role. just cause your too scrubbish to look at water and earth and you only care about yellow numbers and fire dosnt mean anet thinks the same as you

cause from the beginning eles have always been a support role. they were the flag runner, and they were the support midline in all pvp aspects.

oh wait whats that i hear? the fail train is comming in with a comment from some random scrub. BUT SIMMMONS THIS GAME IS PVE NOT PVP.

thats not what guild wars was intended to be, but it turned out that way. see what i did there? i took your words and facepalmed you with them

isildorbiafra · Dec 15, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

To jump on the ongoing troll wagon; they should restore ursan to its original form, and make it a pvp skill while we'r at it!

carnage-runner · Dec 15, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Warder/Freeze.... Endless energy... The designed roll for eles.. Protect other casters that are better at supporting the front line. Front line is your damage, Midline is your support. Backline is your healing. Eles are midline. If you're complaining about aoe capabilities of eles.. Go talk to someone with a mesmer, that profession is the apitomy of support.. They will teach you the ways of the midliner. If you wanna deal massive damage.. Go get an Axe or a Sword.. Go go hundred blades Whirlwind with frosty enchant on your cold damage weapon.... otherwise, Shhh.. play your roll.

Pocketmancer · Dec 15, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Elementalists don't do big damage? Man, I must be on paranoid freak then because I try to take out enemy Elementalists in hard mode missions as soon as possible since they generally nuke my party to hell and back if I leave them alone.

On a more serious side, I'd like to see Elementalists get some kind of an upside for Hard Mode in the damage area. Always playing utility isn't too fun (I have an Elementalist main which I use for vanquishing) and part of the reason I made an Elementalist when Guild Wars launched was because I liked to mindlessly blow up stuff. It's a bit unfair when you have Necromancers, Mesmers, and Paragons deal big numbers and still providing utility whereas Elementalists kinda get stuck with utility only for Hard Mode.

I'll /sign but only if this is to give Elementalists another option in Hard Mode and not necessarily only in the nuking department.

Doesn't really affect me anyway considering my recent play style. All I do in Hard Mode vanquish is run into a bunch of enemies, AFK for 30 seconds, and come back with them all dead due to my hero setup.

Skye Marin · Dec 16, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Nuking does suck. It shouldn't. Fix it.

Intensity
15/1/20
Enchantment Spell. For 15..20 seconds, all your spells that cause elemental damage now instead cause armor-ignoring elemental damage on foes with base armor greater than 80..60AP.

Enix · Dec 16, 2008, 01:22 AM // 01:22

First, let me lay out a few things: My Ele has been my primary since the Betas, and yes, I use it as a damage class. And YES, it was considered a damage class (holy trinity, anyone?). I have played every campain through with every class, and in many different ways. I have gotten Legendary Guardian on my Ele and I am on my way to Vanquisher. I have seen nearly every situation an Ele will encounter in PvE, so that being said...

Yes, high end HM does suck somewhat for an Ele, naimly EoTN/DoA, but it is not impossible. For EoTN, depending on the mobs, double attuned air is great (attunes, orb, blind, etc, and no energy worries) - crack armor then your team kills mobs quickly. Blind+epedimic the mele. Earth sucks in most HM areas - Aegis chain is better than wards and most Earth AoE is DPS, which is BAD.

Yes, some classes out damage Eles on single targets, but if that is all you think of, then you dont know how to play an Ele. Ele is only second to N/Me with Echo SS, Pain Inverter, and Empathyand/or Backfire in general mob frenzy pain - but that takes a small amount of situational awareness.

I played all through Factions HM vanq with the same Nuke build, and it was exceedingly easy. If you are lucky (by running Air of Superiority and Archane Echo), you can spread 4-6 MS with no glyphs and only minor exaustion worries. Seemed to work well for me. Snares? Pfft. Who has the time? Get a good aggro tank and some reasonable prots and dont EVER use anything that pulses/damage each second.

You can still nuke, but keep these things in mind:
1-Dont ever use flare, it is stupid. I only bring single target damage when I am running Air, and that is pretty much only for GOLEM. Even then, water AoE may be more useful.
2-Dont "ever" use damage-per-second skills, they are scatter triggers (unless you run water vs Destroyers).
3-Bring a good tank (live person or get good at flagging and micro)
4-If you bring Fire, bring MS, Air of Superiority, & Archane Echo. Quadruple the fun.
5-A MM does a good job of focusing aggro on lower level minions to allow for good AoE.

OR, just SabWay and echo PvE skills.

FlamingMetroid · Dec 16, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enix

(holy trinity, anyone?)

stopped reading there. Just because typically the elemental spellcaster class in a damage class in most MMORPG's, does not mean you can pick up any game and claim that the elemental spellcaster is a damage class. Its the same as saying "Warriors are tanks in other games, therefore the correct way to play a warrior in Guild Wars is to tank" which is completely false. In Guild Wars they are a support class; Water magic is movement control, Earth Magic is defense support, Air magic is spike assist, Fire magic is pressure damage. All of these roles are support of some kind (pressure damage is support, don't start.) In PvE these roles are either just better done by other classes or not useful, which is design failure on Anet's part. Guild Wars classes do not necessarily fill the same roles that similar-seeming classes from other classes fill, so making that assertion is just stupidity.

daze · Dec 16, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

Nuking does suck. It shouldn't. Fix it.

Intensity
15/1/20
Enchantment Spell. For 15..20 seconds, all your spells that cause elemental damage now instead cause armor-ignoring elemental damage on foes with base armor greater than 80..60AP.

Whew. As awesome as that skill sounds, Even i Would have to say that is overkill. LoL. Can you imagine it? What if the whole fire magic was armor ignoring? Im not sure i can even fathom the possibilities besides the fact that [fire attunement][intensity][glyph of sacrifice][meteor shower][deaths charge][double dragon][bed of coals][inferno] would completely Own any mob to death.

ps. [[double dragon] doesnt have correct description. Elite Spell. All nearby foes are struck for 7...91 fire damage. For 10...22 seconds, your Fire Magic attribute is increased by +0...2. <<<5E,,, 3/4ct,,, 15recharge>>>>

Damian979 · Dec 16, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMetroid

words

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/professions-id24.php

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Profession

http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/professions/

I aggree 100%. Unfortunately if you look at any major gw site, they pretty much all say eles do damage, warriors absorb damage, necros are there for support, yadda yadda. Maybe some people should look into updating some sites....

Oh yea and nuking sucks!1one

MisterT69 · Dec 16, 2008, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Yeah nuking sucks, but why not make it gud? That intensity idea seems quite alright, and according to the GW book we got with proph/factions/nightfall, eles are a damage dealing class thats suppossed to make big yellow numbers appear all over the place.

And as effective as utility builds are w/snare and shutdown and whatnot, why not make some fire skills powerful enough to make them worthwhile in HM, because honestly, asides from AP, if I want to deal enough damage with a caster, I can go nec with SS or mes with VoR and then get some big yellow numbers.

BTW: The master of arcane lore and magical aptitude, the Elementalist calls upon the power of fire, earth, air and water to obliterate enemies. -ingame description. Just a thought there XD

FlamingMetroid · Dec 16, 2008, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

according to the GW book we got with proph/factions/nightfall, eles are a damage dealing class thats suppossed to make big yellow numbers appear all over the place.

the GW books also say Warriors are tanks so...

Quote:

BTW: The master of arcane lore and magical aptitude, the Elementalist calls upon the power of fire, earth, air and water to obliterate enemies. -ingame description. Just a thought there XD

what sounds like a more enjoyable profession to play to someone who buys a game buy looking at a box: "SHOOTS TEH LAZ0RS AND REIGNS DOWN TEH F1RES FROM THE SKY WITH SUPAR MIGHTY P0WARS TO KILLS ALL TEH BAD GAIZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!1!1!one!!!1" or "a spell caster that utilizes various skills to restrict enemy movement, assist in coordinated spikes, provide defensive support, or provide cover damage with a large energy pool." Despite the fact that it might not be technically true, Anet put the more appealing description in their information.

I Jonas I · Dec 16, 2008, 05:06 AM // 05:06

From a PvE aspect: Warriors are better for single target damage (autoattacking), Necros and dervs are better at AoE damage (spiteful spirit, autoattacking with scythe), necro's are better at shutdown (enfeebling blood), rit's and necro's are better at support (Barbs+MoP, Splinter weapon/ancestor's rage). Basically Ele's don't do anything exceptionally well, so yeah they're bad

From a PvP aspect: Ele's (and their fast-cast mesmer counterparts, who are in for a nerf) are good at shutting down melee's through blurred vision/blind and snaring. They assist in spikes, but obviously can't match the DPS of a warrior. They're good support characters, at least in GvG and RA. I don't HA much, but they obviously play a much bigger role there, as there seems to be at least 1 SH ele in every team that could be considered "meta". As much as I hate to say it as a player who mostly plays ranger (and takes blurred vision like he takes to swimming in lava), they are a well balanced PvP class overall.

kostolomac · Dec 16, 2008, 05:38 AM // 05:38

I don't ever remember eles being used as primay damage dealers , or any caster class for that matter. Even necros need physicals for their damage.

Quote:

Basically Ele's don't do anything exceptionally well, so yeah they're bad

So do rits ,mesmers and rangers.

Quote:

Nuking does suck. It shouldn't. Fix it.

Illusion , smiting prayers , spirits suck in pve. They shouldn't. Fix them.

daze · Dec 16, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enix

And YES, it was considered a damage class (holy trinity, anyone?).

Actually, holy trinity doesn't automatically mean that a caster has to be a damage dealer, It just means they use magic

The trinity consists of Melee, thief/ranger, Wizard/caster.
the origin is from the core attributes that make up 99% of RPGs out there

melee
----
Strength
Constitution

Thief
----
Dexterity
Speed

Wizard
----
Intelligence/willpower
Charisma/wisdom

each of the "trinity" focuses on their core attributes. And other professions can be derived from merging/melding contrasting attributes together(paladin=strength/chrisma) but the first 3 always being the core.

Some RPGs like to throw the "Luck" attribute into the mix, but that is and always will be a wildcard.

pumpkin pie · Dec 16, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

try this :P
Bring 2 water eles, monk secondary, and a healer heros, for hench, take zho, devona, mhenlo, alesia. Always flag your heros in heal range and micro manage the eles, one maelstrom one deep freeze and watch them die

40/40 set would be ideal, but i am using 20% enchantment + 20/20

The idea of this build is that all the skill recharge fast and you get to upkeep your health and energy while doing damage.

[Pumpkin Goes Tanking;OgBCoMzjuoXMM4FjVcBtoWA]

for guru: your connection is badder then that of guild wars lol

upier · Dec 16, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Here's a strung out idea:
How about instead of trashing the game further (Hello, armour-ignoring Intensity!) we fix it?
You know, by actually following the rules that make the core of this game?
Like - casters having 60AL, 1 sec meaning 1 secs when it comes to activation times and silly crap like that?

You want eles to deal damage?
Delete HM.

You want that moronic idea to stay in GW?
Well then, I guess you'll be spamming wards and blind!

It's not the eles that are broken. It's what the eles go against!

(Ohh and anyone saying that "nuking sucks", you are aware that that was written with PvP in mind? And then when applied to PvE some of the things written there are completely irrelevant? (Hello from Mindbender! Hello from waiting and regening energy after each battle! Hello from foes dying before melee can even reach them!))